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Re: Politics/Wembley

Post by flickerclear » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:39 pm

frank wrote:I guess I'm in agreement with other comments made here - I'm a musician first and foremost, I want to play music and listen to music. I love and respect Billy as a songwriter, and it's his right within his songs to say whatever he likes. The focus of the night (and of most of what I do, incidentally) is on having a good time, not trying to lecture people. I thought Billy got the crowd going excellently, as I knew he would, and that's about all that matter for me personally.

I do take your point - we don't see eye to eye on a lot of stuff - but that doesn't mean I don't respect his views.
I actually saw Billy late last year and ended up leaving a little frustrated due to the amount of socialist lecturing he did, and how he knocked the lib dems without evidence in a way he knew would get the crowd going, but which my very open-minded but liberal activist friend was understandably unimpressed by. I'm glad he was on better form at Wembley as my experience was enough to put me off him.

This is probably a dead thread but I thought it was worth posting anyhow, as I've never quite been able to reconcile libertarianism ala Nozick with what I hear in Frank's songs - they just don't sound like the work of someone with priorities that far to the right - and i wondered if anyone could shed any light on this?

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Post by frank » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:54 pm

I can't say I have masses of time for nozick personally. I'm not really that into deep / borderline utopian political theory. Bores me rigid. Personally I just see being a "libertarian" as a tendency towards freedom in politics, not some overarching theory.
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"He's like an Uncle, I like him but I don't want to listen to him all day."

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Re: Politics/Wembley

Post by ddavidu » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:35 am

As someone who was lucky to be 16 in 1977, I fully engaged in Punk. Listening to The Clash became the catalyst to enable me to seek out information and understanding without feeling I was being preached to. From that point I have always felt more engaged with artists who had "something to say" and who I could relate to either on a personal or intellectual level. Both Billy Bragg and Frank fit into that category and are far more similar to each other that apart. Their views may differ but the basic belief is their love of their fellow man, whatever their race, creed or sexuality. The central themes of equality and freedom for all and not just for the privilege elite.

Billy Bragg is so much more that just a protest singer. The majority of his songs focus on personal issues and have themes that would appeal to most, regardless of their political views. I feel Billy and Frank are a natural fit.

As an old Punk I naturally relate to Love Ire & Song which has the lyric

But it was worse when we turned to the kids on the left
And got let down again by some poor excuse for protest
Yeah by idiot fucking hippies in 50 different factions
Who are locked inside some kind of 60's battle re-enactment
And I hung-up my banner in disgust and I head for the door

Most of us on here I would hope are compassionate human beings who would want the greater good for the many rather that just the self. The above lyric from Frank confirms that its natural to look at left leaning politics when looking for solutions but of course dogma, differences "our view is better that your view" leaves many to embark on a more personal political and moral framework without the shackles of a "label".

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Re: Politics/Wembley

Post by flickerclear » Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:12 pm

I haven't been on in a bit...
I think you could say that the common ground between Frank and Billy comes from them having the same ultimate priorities like ddavidu is saying, despite different ideas concerning how to bring those priorities about. Any political ideology you might possess is generally a means to an end, and as far as ultimate ends go Frank and Billy want the same thing.

Also thanks for taking the time to reply Frank, that certainly makes more sense.

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