When Did We Get So Fucking Old?

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justdip
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When Did We Get So Fucking Old?

Post by justdip » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:26 pm

Care Less. Participate More.

http://justdip.co.uk/2014/04/24/when-di ... cking-old/

Comment below.

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Danlechief
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Re: When Did We Get So Fucking Old?

Post by Danlechief » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:03 pm

Great article. It's something that has crossed my mind a lot recently. I've been wondering whether it's the artists that have changed or I have changed. Whether when I don't get into a gig like I did at 17/18 whether they aren't putting on a show like the bands I watched ten years ago. Of course, I am more adventurous, musically, these days. I will go and see bands who I don't know, i will go and see Bands alone on the strength of one track I heard. That's how I got into FT, after all. So maybe my impassiveness is caused by not knowing every word, every chord sequence. It's almost like watching a film that you've seen many times and know you love, compared to watching one you haven't seen. The anticipation is actually higher when you know what's coming. After pondering on this over the last year or so I figured that I was cured this February. Tears streaming down my face as I belted out the words to long live the queen. Not caring what anyone around me thought, it was about what the song meant to me, no one else. And yet a few days later I stood in relative silence, at one of the most intimate and beautiful gigs I've ever been privileged enough to go to. Franks winchester hall gig was touching, and wonderful. But as I stood towards the back (my wife had a bad leg) I was self conscious of all the people around me neither singing along nor dancing like a loon. And my concerns came back. Am I too old? (26). Do I give a fuck? Should I? I don't know.
"Age is no object if you're in love.

Oh shit what have I just said?"

frank turner, Birmingham, 18th November 2015

blastman
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Re: When Did We Get So Fucking Old?

Post by blastman » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:16 pm

Dan, if you're too old at 26, then I'm truly bolloxed!! :D Great article, though. I blame mobile phone cameras myself, even though I'm guilty of taking a snap or two.

sarahg
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Re: When Did We Get So Fucking Old?

Post by sarahg » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:14 pm

Putting aside the age issue, music is indeed not a spectator sport, not if you want to have fun...sorry for using the 'f' word. Love the article, but seriously try to live a little, when you've grown ancient (like me) you will learn that being embarrassing is great fun.

doug
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Re: When Did We Get So Fucking Old?

Post by doug » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:47 pm

All kinds are welcome from my perspective. The kids who jump up and down, the band travelers, the mid crowd arm lifters, the back of the crowd watchers. Some people are more gregarious than others. It's that way in life and in the crowd in a musical venue. Music doesn't have to be a spectator sport, but it can be. The very transaction of purchasing a ticket to watch a live act affords numerous ways to enjoy the show. I used to get in the mix and bounce with the crowd and scream at the top of my lungs to each song. Entering my 40s, I tend to settle in the mid-crowd, singing along, but not really physically investing. Sometimes, I am dragged to a show with a friend and my knowledge or like of the band is middling. I watch respectfully and make sure to move toward the back so as not to take a spot of the more passionate. When I go to "retro" hardcore gigs (Agent Orange, OFF! (though OFF! is contemporary as hell, their following contains old Keith fans), 7 Seconds, etc), I tend to stay away from the pit and enjoy both the show and the crowd show from a distance.

People just need to go...to support bands, especially at the less-than-mega end of the spectrum, support live music, and support venues. Buy a piece of merch on the way out. If you want to dance and carry on, do so, but if that isn't your comfort level, attend and see where the room takes you. I have been going to shows for a long, long time...too long to make sense in my own head (I can't be that old, can I?)...and my level of physical participation naturally has changed. I am not a big fan of sloppy drunks, or rules, be they focused on acting cool or being a good fan. So I live in the middle-back, unless the spirit moves me. Which Mr Turner did most recently in Phoenix and Flagstaff. Let's all go and have fun and, most of all, not be dicks.

ToTheWest
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Re: When Did We Get So Fucking Old?

Post by ToTheWest » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:55 am

Wow...are you sure you're not from LA? Ha. Good article. I've definitely seen what you describe--cynicism (and feigned cynicism) runs high around these parts--but as live gigs are one of the things in life that bring me the most joy (provided the performers aren't shit, of course), I try not to care so much about those folks. Truth be told, watching someone I love play allows me to zone out from the usual anxiety that tends to plague me, and for that I am so grateful.

At the same time, I also somewhat agree with Doug--it's best not to make rules about what to do and not to do. The quieter folks at the back aren't hurting anyone. I love that you see all ages at Frank Turner gigs, and if they're not comfortable being up front in the crush, that's fine with me. At least they're there supporting, like Doug said. I'm 33 myself--identifying a lot with "Losing Days" at this point--and even though my heart wants to be running around in a circle pit when I see one, the fact that my non-desk job would be made exponentially more difficult by me injuring pretty much any part of my body, generally keeps me on the fringes of them. Close enough to feel the energy and momentum, but with my feet firmly planted on the ground once the bodies start flying in my direction.

Anyhow, as long as people come to gigs with open-minded, positive attitudes, I think there's room for all kinds at shows. On the other hand, if you're going to be a dick, do us all a favor and stay home.
Brevity is not my forte.

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darlenet.
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Re: When Did We Get So Fucking Old?

Post by darlenet. » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:23 am

The age thing is interesting. It's almost like a bell curve, and I most definitely am on the downslope. But like you pointed out, you care more what people think as you get older. But then as you get even older (like me), your "give a shit factor" becomes less and less. 10-20 years ago I would never have dreamed of standing (kinda dancing) in a sitting venue (for a rock concert, not a play). Now, when I hear a request to sit, I politely smile and give a look that clearly shows i have no intention of sitting. So we may have gotten "so fucking old", but it is going to be okay.
shows? 90 so far...

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valderie
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Re: When Did We Get So Fucking Old?

Post by valderie » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:50 pm

"Fanboy", and likewise "Fangirl", are not dirty words!!!! People seem to think being called one is bad, that being one is bad, but I disagree entirely. Being a fanboy/girl means you are passionate about whatever it is you're a fan of. You are dedicated and invested and the reason that thing succeeds. It's GOOD to be one and to have fangirls/boys. It's good to give a shit about what you like. The only reason these terms are seen in a bad way is when people take it to the extreme and start being disrespectful in the pursuit of the thing they love - either to the band or to other fans with just general questionable behavior (elitist attitudes, stalking the bands, etc).

I think its immensely important to be excited about music, especially if you are there in the room seeing it. However not everyone may show that excitment the same way you do - which is also important to note. For me, because my body thinks it's 80 years old despite it only being 24, I can't jump around and go crazy much at all, I can't be front row when I know the crowd will be rowdy... hell half the time I have to sit through the show. But just because I can't dance and I'm sitting the entire time doesn't mean I'm not having the time of my life seeing bands perform just a few feet away from me. Some of the best gigs I've been to have been ones where I probably looked very jaded and boring, just because I was sitting. I was still able to have a lot of fun though, which is the point!

Going hand in hand with this is the idea that for young people to be taken seriously in the music industry that they have to stop acting like a fan. That they have to be like the LA/NYC crowds - the too cool for school, jaded and aloof look is one the must perfect. They think they can't dance and sing, can't wait around to meet the band or ask for photos/an autograph. Which is total bullshit - if you're doing those things respectfully there's nothing wrong with showing the world you are invested in the band. Screw what other people think - enjoy the full experience if that's what will make you happy.

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Danlechief
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Re: When Did We Get So Fucking Old?

Post by Danlechief » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:10 pm

valderie wrote:"Fanboy", and likewise "Fangirl", are not dirty words!!!! People seem to think being called one is bad, that being one is bad, but I disagree entirely. Being a fanboy/girl means you are passionate about whatever it is you're a fan of. You are dedicated and invested and the reason that thing succeeds. It's GOOD to be one and to have fangirls/boys. It's good to give a shit about what you like. The only reason these terms are seen in a bad way is when people take it to the extreme and start being disrespectful in the pursuit of the thing they love - either to the band or to other fans with just general questionable behavior (elitist attitudes, stalking the bands, etc).

I think its immensely important to be excited about music, especially if you are there in the room seeing it. However not everyone may show that excitment the same way you do - which is also important to note. For me, because my body thinks it's 80 years old despite it only being 24, I can't jump around and go crazy much at all, I can't be front row when I know the crowd will be rowdy... hell half the time I have to sit through the show. But just because I can't dance and I'm sitting the entire time doesn't mean I'm not having the time of my life seeing bands perform just a few feet away from me. Some of the best gigs I've been to have been ones where I probably looked very jaded and boring, just because I was sitting. I was still able to have a lot of fun though, which is the point!

Going hand in hand with this is the idea that for young people to be taken seriously in the music industry that they have to stop acting like a fan. That they have to be like the LA/NYC crowds - the too cool for school, jaded and aloof look is one the must perfect. They think they can't dance and sing, can't wait around to meet the band or ask for photos/an autograph. Which is total bullshit - if you're doing those things respectfully there's nothing wrong with showing the world you are invested in the band. Screw what other people think - enjoy the full experience if that's what will make you happy.

Danlechief "likes" this.
"Age is no object if you're in love.

Oh shit what have I just said?"

frank turner, Birmingham, 18th November 2015

Sousbois
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Re: When Did We Get So Fucking Old?

Post by Sousbois » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:11 am

You want fucking old? I'll give you fucking old.

About 5 years ago, my youngest daughter decided she wanted to go to some gigs, and maybe a festival. Too young to go alone, so I went along, as driver and supervisor.

Live Music grabbed me by the throat. I can't get enough. We went to Reading Festival, we went to V Festival, we went to Brixton Academy, to the o2, to the Monarch, to the Emirates, to Cambridge Junction, to Finsbury Park. Huge global bands, individual guys with a guitar, and everything in between.

Which is how I came to find myself recently, 7 weeks after my FIFTIETH birthday, leaping around ecstatically at the o2, so close to the front that I was one of the guys who hauled Frank up when he dived into the crowd. I probably looked silly, perhaps even mad, but fuck it, I was having the time of my life.

And how I found myself, a few days ago, whooping with joy when I discovered that Gogol Bordello, Mongol Horde, Wolf Alice and Band of Skulls had been added to Reading Festival. I'm gonna have the time of my life again in August.

You are never too old, and certainly never too cool ...

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Blonde
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Re: When Did We Get So Fucking Old?

Post by Blonde » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:05 pm

I read that article and all the way through it, I found myself thinking "I think thats just you who goes to gigs with that mindset". If you stand around trying to look all cool and care about what others think about you and it makes you enjoy the gig less than you would have done, then more fool you.

Like Valerie has already said, just because you aren't jumping around, it doesn't mean you aren't enjoying the gig. Whilst people may want to jump around at a gig but don't manage it, there are many reasons why. It doesn't necessarily mean that its because they care about whether other gig goers are judging them. I know sometimes I would like to go towards the pit, but after being on my feet all day at work, I don't have the energy to, so I'll stay on the edges. Anyway, if you *really* think about it, isn't jumping up and down and throwing yourself into other people an odd way to express your enjoyment of something? "Hey, I really like your music and I'm going to demonstrate this by running around in a circle"
Justdip wrote:Maybe I’ll send a tweet. “ Excuse me, @bloodredshoes. That was incredible. Well done you.” On one hand, six hundred people will know that I enjoyed the show. But really, how insincere. How faceless. It’s desperate, without the danger. No thanks...

Next time I see you, I’ll tell you to your face
Not everyone has the option to tell the band face to face that they loved the gig they've just witnessed. It doesn't make them faceless or desperate and it doesn't make the sentiment insincere if they tweet the band to tell them instead.
Justdip wrote:. I’m never shying away from a pit. I’m not going to stop banging my head. Being passive is not an option. Music should cause a reaction. React already.
Basically you've started the article judging others who show their enjoyment in more obvious ways and ended it by judging those who don't. You'd be better off if you didn't care so much about what others around you are doing and instead concentrated on the band onstage. Maybe you'd get more enjoyment out of it.

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valderie
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Re: When Did We Get So Fucking Old?

Post by valderie » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:27 am

Blonde wrote: Not everyone has the option to tell the band face to face that they loved the gig they've just witnessed. It doesn't make them faceless or desperate and it doesn't make the sentiment insincere if they tweet the band to tell them instead.
I also think its very interesting how even a few years ago we didn't have the luxury of tweeting a message like this to bands we just saw, but now its so commonplace it can seem insincere. A lot of people (most, certainly me!) take social media and bands/celebrities for granted, and just assume that's where you'll give/get/share information. However it can also breed a sense of entitlement in a way, because fans build such strong one sided connections to these people that they feel like they DESERVE to be able to meet these people at events to be able to tell them what they mean to them - but that's a whooooole other can of worms ;)

DaveK
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Re: When Did We Get So Fucking Old?

Post by DaveK » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:53 am

My daughter just turned 18 this year, and I've been taking her to concerts since she was 14. I'll be 59 in August. I saw many shows in my 20s and 30s, but pretty much stopped attending when I hit 40. The last 4 or 5 years though, I've seen more shows than I did the first 30 years of my life. And my daughter is definitely one of those who uses twitter and tumbler to converse with her bands. She's met many of them... but she's fairly level-headed and knows that it's a privilege to meet them and not something she's owed. However.... she's fallen in love Matt Healy (of the 1975) and kind of loses herself when she's discussing him. She bought a friendship necklace a year ago.... one that you wear for awhile and then you give it to someone else. She saw The 1975 at the end of last year and gave Matt this necklace. About 3 months later, I heard a screech coming from her room. She apparently just noticed that the background shot of him she had on her laptop, was one where he was wearing that necklace. Freaked her out. Anyway.... you're never too old to experience good music.

Craven
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Re: When Did We Get So Fucking Old?

Post by Craven » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:33 pm

I've never been one for jumping/moshing/running in circles at gigs - mainly due to kneecaps that like to pop out whenever I do, (one year injury free this Friday :lol: ) but you'll usually find me keeping out of trouble at the front. I have been the one on the barrier going crazy for the support band that no one else as heard of. As well as the guy stood at the back letting everyone else do the jumping, but I'll be nodding my head to the music - how is nodding perceived these days? I always assume that it's uncool. I'm not sure what I find more annoying at gigs these days? People with phones out or the plus ones - the dragged along boyfriends who just stand there and sulk for a few hours.

Sousbois wrote:You want fucking old? I'll give you fucking old.
I'll give you old! Well, not me, but my old man, he was seen rocking at Reading Festival the year before last - only a couple of months before his 60th birthday!
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drinkthesunshinezine
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Re: When Did We Get So Fucking Old?

Post by drinkthesunshinezine » Thu May 01, 2014 3:55 pm

Craven wrote:I'm not sure what I find more annoying at gigs these days? People with phones out or the plus ones - the dragged along boyfriends who just stand there and sulk for a few hours.

Sousbois wrote:You want fucking old? I'll give you fucking old.
I'll give you old! Well, not me, but my old man, he was seen rocking at Reading Festival the year before last - only a couple of months before his 60th birthday!
The most annoying people at gigs are the ones that talk over the bands.
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