Loneliness! (ness....ness...ness...ness...)

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Venomous_Bear
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Loneliness! (ness....ness...ness...ness...)

Post by Venomous_Bear » Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:09 pm

Ba-da-dadada DA! It's a new thread, new topic, time for a song and dance, la la la

Long story short, this is related to Frank because I had a huge identity problem earlier in the year, and made myself go to the middle of fucking nowhere U.S.A. to sort my brain out, and that's how I became a fan because his music helped, etc. Which kick-started the "holy fuck, I'm alone sometimes, and I really like it because I get to think about things, and it's ok to be an introvert, and acknowledging this actually lends to meeting new people via solo travel which I was always afraid to do before, and listen to your heart" and a whole bunch of other shit that I really will blog at some point, but I keep chickening out about. I've got several hours to kill; maybe I'll finish that.
Note: no one ever believes I am introverted when I meet them in person, but trust me, people exhaust all of my fucking resources and when I get to go back into my shell, my eyes make that little "recharging" icon that iPhones make. No offense, this is just truth. Sort of.
2nd Note: everything's fine! :D All sorted and happy now. Huzzah!

Anyway... a lot of talk these days about how people are becoming lonelier and lonelier in the so-called Information Age/Communication Age...how it's so fucking easy these days to talk to all of my friends from 3-D life, but how I'm not ACTUALLY talking with them on ze interwebs (except my friend Matt, hhhhh, he texts me ALL DAY EVERY DAY TO TELL ME WHAT HE ATE, and I am too nice to say "MATT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shut the fuck up!" because HE'S lonely. So right now, we're talking about salad and protein shakes. Friendship.). Or how you can carry on a long-distance relationship for a long time, but not ACTUALLY carry on a long-distance relationship because you're just looking at a screen.

Then I saw this. Watch, and then read more if you want...
http://elitedaily.com/news/world/this-v ... son-video/

I edit myself all the time. I now require the ability to edit myself. I always ask people to email me instead of call or meet in person, and I never thought of it as a wall until watching this. Fuck. Now I don't even know.

Watch this, too, because it's awesome and I don't know if it's made its way around the UK. Springsteen reference enclosed.

http://teamcoco.com/video/70303/louis-c ... ell-phones

And this, because it's the best thing on the internet, and there is an amazing documentary about this man which is related to loneliness and isolation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSWUWPx2VeQ
Toronto (x3), Hatfield, Derry, London (x2), Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Detroit, Buffalo, Boston (x4), Ottawa, Fake London, Nottingham, Manchester, Portsmouth

metronome
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Re: Loneliness! (ness....ness...ness...ness...)

Post by metronome » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:26 am

Venomous_Bear wrote: Then I saw this. Watch, and then read more if you want...
http://elitedaily.com/news/world/this-v ... son-video/
I'm not so sure about this one... The point about self editing definitely made me think, particularly about texts and emails; I can see how the Facebook/social networking thing is related as a concept, but it's not necessarily replacing conversation in the same way as texting. Most conversations I have on facebook are with people I otherwise would be unable to talk to, so it's useful.
Venomous_Bear wrote: Watch this, too, because it's awesome and I don't know if it's made its way around the UK. Springsteen reference enclosed.

http://teamcoco.com/video/70303/louis-c ... ell-phones
I have no idea who this guy is, but I like what he has to say :) I also constantly have to fight myself not to take my phone out while alone or waiting, and I usually feel better for just leaving it alone
Venomous_Bear wrote:And this, because it's the best thing on the internet, and there is an amazing documentary about this man which is related to loneliness and isolation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSWUWPx2VeQ
Wasn't expecting that :D
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darlenet.
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Re: Loneliness! (ness....ness...ness...ness...)

Post by darlenet. » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:07 am

Venomous_Bear wrote: "...and it's ok to be an introvert, and acknowledging this actually lends to meeting new people via solo travel which I was always afraid to do before, and listen to your heart"...
This is the most enlightening thing about being an introvert I have ever read:

http://elibishop.com/2011/07/27/10-myth ... ntroverts/

darlene
Xx
shows? 64 so far

Venomous_Bear
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Re: Loneliness! (ness....ness...ness...ness...)

Post by Venomous_Bear » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:46 am

darlenet. wrote:
Venomous_Bear wrote: "...and it's ok to be an introvert, and acknowledging this actually lends to meeting new people via solo travel which I was always afraid to do before, and listen to your heart"...
This is the most enlightening thing about being an introvert I have ever read:

http://elibishop.com/2011/07/27/10-myth ... ntroverts/

darlene
Xx
Thank you for sharing! That's awesome. It's so funny, because I thought I was a total asshole for so long. Everyone was all "oh...come out and party...this...that", and sometimes I'd go and have a glorious time. But sometimes, it would get cancelled. And I would think to myself: "anything is possible now. Also, it means I don't have to put on pants." Now that I know these things about m'self, I just schedule in time to be alone.

But it's interesting....I don't really...ever...get...lonely...I mean, in normal situations. Right now, I'm sitting beside an outlet in a corridor of an airport, and the only people I have seen tonight have been five cops and a dude getting arrested for carrying a plastic bag and no luggage (!!!). So RIGHT NOW, I am typing about loneliness because I'm lonely (and a little worried...). And I think I use this site and other sites when I'm mayyybe getting a bit of that Springsteenian-far-away-voice feeling as well. Maybe I just look for that tiny bit of acknowledgement from someone, and then I feel better. This is interesting. Exploring this.
Toronto (x3), Hatfield, Derry, London (x2), Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Detroit, Buffalo, Boston (x4), Ottawa, Fake London, Nottingham, Manchester, Portsmouth

Venomous_Bear
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Re: Loneliness! (ness....ness...ness...ness...)

Post by Venomous_Bear » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:08 am

metronome wrote: I have no idea who this guy is, but I like what he has to say :) I also constantly have to fight myself not to take my phone out while alone or waiting, and I usually feel better for just leaving it alone
He is Louis C.K., a comedian that has been working his ass off for literal decades and is finally getting the recognition he deserves stateside. He talks about brutally honest shit that no one admits. It's universal! Here's another brilliant snack from him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqk3GdOkqPY
Toronto (x3), Hatfield, Derry, London (x2), Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Detroit, Buffalo, Boston (x4), Ottawa, Fake London, Nottingham, Manchester, Portsmouth

ScarletPlanetMoon
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Re: Loneliness! (ness....ness...ness...ness...)

Post by ScarletPlanetMoon » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:40 pm

Just a quick from me (haven't watched the videos, to lazy to get up and get my headphones!). I have far more friends online than I do in real life, that's just the way it is. I'm hoping to meet a lot of them in February at Frank's tour, they're the reason I'm bothering to go from Leeds to London to see the show (one of my online friends is even putting me up for the night). I don't know what I'd do without any of them, they're all great.

I have to agree with the points on the myths article too. I'm sick to death of people just telling me I'm shy. Granted that is part of it, but I aren't going to chat shit if there's nothing to say, I'd rather sit in the quiet.

I do get lonely too, sometimes, but that is mostly when I just want someone there to chat with. In the times I do want to talk about stuff.
I'm no good at thinking of something funny enough for these things.
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erasmus
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Re: Loneliness! (ness....ness...ness...ness...)

Post by erasmus » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:51 pm

Funny, I only browse around in this forum about every 6 months or so, but I got on this morning, seeking some sort of solace after a difficult conversation with my boyfriend last night, and I found this thread. It’s not about exactly the same thing, but it’s close enough that I felt I should write and ask for comment.

So, I was proofreading a piece for my boyfriend’s “nondual” newsletter, all about how when we feel that we’re not loving enough it’s because we’re trying to think our way into love or compassion instead of getting our minds out of the way and just feeling it, because if we allow ourselves to feel without analyzing, love will naturally just flow through us. Please note that Adam is one of those “spiritual” people, and I am not, and I generally just roll my eyes at all this and say things like, “Whatever, but you can’t use a semicolon there because it’s not an independent clause.”

But he kept pushing at me last night, and we wound up going through a lot of stuff, like my disdain for angsty, teenagery “sensitivity” that doesn’t DO anything except sit around feeling superior for being so “deep,” and my suicidal year in New Orleans in the 90’s, and my post-Katrina/Rita survivor’s guilt, because I got out of Louisiana and a lot of other people didn’t, and this is what it came down to: Connection Hurts. Love and compassion strip you raw and leave you with a broken heart every 10 minutes, and you can never, never, never do enough.

I’ve spent several years now being stoic and practical and organized and competent, and even happy (which is not something I used to think was possible) and I take care of my dogs and my cats and my friends, and my friends’ children and dogs and cats, but today I am shaky and crying and I can’t seem to get anything done properly, because everything is completely overwhelming. Part of me recognizes that this is what I’ve always, deep down, felt that life was supposed to feel like. (To make the Frank Turner connection, it’s the message that resonates most with me in the songs, and that makes me feel young again – that feeling that if you throw yourself wholly into life, there’s infinite possibility for transcendence and heartbreak.) But how do you cope with it? How do you modulate love and compassion between off and full on?

Adam does not understand this question. He believes that just loving is enough, and that it’s not necessary to DO anything. Perhaps this is because he’s a libertarian, and believes that everyone is happier just looking out for themselves, while I think that people need taking care of. Or perhaps (and this is where I connect to the earlier posts) the problem is that I am very introverted (19 of 21 on the Myers-Briggs) and I find that ANY connection with others, even just listening compassionately, is exhausting, both physically and emotionally draining. I can’t really relate to the email/text as a means of separation discussion, because even that is too much for me. The thought of joining Facebook makes me sick with dread. I can handle about 2.5 friends in my life at any given time, before I feel put upon. So what’s to do? How can you connect with others, and still take enough time for yourself, without feeling guilty?

helentx
Posts: 212
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Re: Loneliness! (ness....ness...ness...ness...)

Post by helentx » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:52 pm

It's been a while since I did the Myers Brigg test which I found very interesting & informative. I came out as an ENFP. Out of interest which letters are yours, erasmus?

erasmus
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:06 am

Re: Loneliness! (ness....ness...ness...ness...)

Post by erasmus » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:02 pm

I'm INFP, pretty strongly. My housemate/best friend of nearly 20 years is ENFP. We obviously get along quite well, but...when we first met him, my then-housemate and I invited him over for dinner. He showed up with 4 other people. And a dog.

Venomous_Bear
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Re: Loneliness! (ness....ness...ness...ness...)

Post by Venomous_Bear » Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:40 am

erasmus wrote:Funny, I only browse around in this forum about every 6 months or so, but I got on this morning, seeking some sort of solace after a difficult conversation with my boyfriend last night, and I found this thread. It’s not about exactly the same thing, but it’s close enough that I felt I should write and ask for comment.

So, I was proofreading a piece for my boyfriend’s “nondual” newsletter, all about how when we feel that we’re not loving enough it’s because we’re trying to think our way into love or compassion instead of getting our minds out of the way and just feeling it, because if we allow ourselves to feel without analyzing, love will naturally just flow through us. Please note that Adam is one of those “spiritual” people, and I am not, and I generally just roll my eyes at all this and say things like, “Whatever, but you can’t use a semicolon there because it’s not an independent clause.”

But he kept pushing at me last night, and we wound up going through a lot of stuff, like my disdain for angsty, teenagery “sensitivity” that doesn’t DO anything except sit around feeling superior for being so “deep,” and my suicidal year in New Orleans in the 90’s, and my post-Katrina/Rita survivor’s guilt, because I got out of Louisiana and a lot of other people didn’t, and this is what it came down to: Connection Hurts. Love and compassion strip you raw and leave you with a broken heart every 10 minutes, and you can never, never, never do enough.

I’ve spent several years now being stoic and practical and organized and competent, and even happy (which is not something I used to think was possible) and I take care of my dogs and my cats and my friends, and my friends’ children and dogs and cats, but today I am shaky and crying and I can’t seem to get anything done properly, because everything is completely overwhelming. Part of me recognizes that this is what I’ve always, deep down, felt that life was supposed to feel like. (To make the Frank Turner connection, it’s the message that resonates most with me in the songs, and that makes me feel young again – that feeling that if you throw yourself wholly into life, there’s infinite possibility for transcendence and heartbreak.) But how do you cope with it? How do you modulate love and compassion between off and full on?

Adam does not understand this question. He believes that just loving is enough, and that it’s not necessary to DO anything. Perhaps this is because he’s a libertarian, and believes that everyone is happier just looking out for themselves, while I think that people need taking care of. Or perhaps (and this is where I connect to the earlier posts) the problem is that I am very introverted (19 of 21 on the Myers-Briggs) and I find that ANY connection with others, even just listening compassionately, is exhausting, both physically and emotionally draining. I can’t really relate to the email/text as a means of separation discussion, because even that is too much for me. The thought of joining Facebook makes me sick with dread. I can handle about 2.5 friends in my life at any given time, before I feel put upon. So what’s to do? How can you connect with others, and still take enough time for yourself, without feeling guilty?
Oh God, I read that and felt all of the feelings, because I am very much the same. Or... Used to be. I don't think your questions have answers, or at least easy ones. It is a tough thing to balance being a good friend to however many people and being heavily introverted.

Lately, I just stopped feeling guilty. I don't really know how I got to that conclusion, but I realized I made a LOT of life decisions on what other people wanted me to do, or what was the most responsible decision at the time, and then I had the audacity to ask myself why I was so sad.

If you need to take more time for yourself to feel/act upon what you mentioned, then you need to do that. You sound like you are everyone's "person", the one who is reliable and trustworthy and able to help them work out their issues, maybe because you have so much compassion and are a good listener? If you are happy with this role, then you need to realize that people are always going to need to burden you with their stuff, and often won't return the favour. I hate to be so negative about it, but it's true. A lot of the reason I've been travelling so much after obligatory work travel is because it provides a bit of a barrier without being rude and abrupt about it. I don't really have many folks to go to in return, which... Is why I've got FT.

I'm sure none of this helped, but there isn't a happy medium, I'm afraid. You've gotta sort out how much burden you can handle. It sounds like you know when it's too much: when you get to the point you were at when you wrote this. Go for a drive, or go somewhere you can be alone. Don't bring your phone, or turn it off. You are allowed to do such things. Hang in there.
Toronto (x3), Hatfield, Derry, London (x2), Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Detroit, Buffalo, Boston (x4), Ottawa, Fake London, Nottingham, Manchester, Portsmouth

erasmus
Posts: 5
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Re: Loneliness! (ness....ness...ness...ness...)

Post by erasmus » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:39 am

I certainly understand the urge to escape at times. You’re right; I am a caretaker, and I tend to take responsibility for things and overextend myself. I LIKE being helpful and useful, but I also fantasize about packing up my most crucial possessions in a single suitcase and moving far away. It won’t happen anytime soon, of course (not least because my most prized possessions are a pit bull, a brown velvet dress, an 80-year-old crockery bowl and the nearly-complete works of Diana Wynne Jones – not the most practical items for re-establishing oneself), but I’m kind of deliberately not mentioning the FT show in Des Moines to the friend I brought to the last show, even though she’s depressed and lonely and enjoyed it last time, because I’m selfishly looking forward to 3.5 hours in the car, and a whole night in a hotel room ALONE. The luxury! But maybe I’ll invite her to the Columbia, MO, show.

All that said, however, I think yesterday’s crisis was more existential than that. It wasn’t merely about feeling tired and stressed, but about facing some kind of difficult truth about myself. I spent most of my teens and twenties being angsty, emotional, and depressed (read: Goth), and saved myself through a) taking in stray animals, b) going to library school, and c) turning away from the soppy self-indulgence of depression and sentiment. I became a self-declared misanthrope, albeit one who neutered feral cats and made a living as a babysitter. My one-line self-description: “The truth is I don’t like people all that much.”

But now I’m facing the idea that this lyric is as much of a lie for me as it is for FT (because someone who thinks he’s not compassionate enough probably cares plenty; if he didn’t, he wouldn’t give a fuck about being compassionate.) So there’s all sorts of pent-up caring that I’m having to grapple with, which I hate, because it makes me feel like some kind of character in a YA novel. It reminds me of the bitter regret I had to work through when I finally made it to happy, and had to face up to the fact that I wasted YEARS being unhappy. Or when I turned 40 and realized that any level of attractiveness I still possessed had to be qualified with “for her age,” and that I’d fucked up my youth being frightened and insecure, so I’d had less than half the fun I might have had up to that point.

I guess this is age=wisdom, but it’s pretty hard, sometimes. And now I’m right back where I started, having gone from caring too much to not caring enough back to caring too much. I need to learn how to care just a little bit less, I guess, so that every interaction doesn’t leave me raw and teary, but not so much less that I shut myself off from the possibility of making genuine connections with people.

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