Careers vs Values

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RyanC
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Careers vs Values

Post by RyanC » Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:05 pm

Hello all,
I'm graduating in the spring, so naturally the job hunt is in full swing. While weighing my options I have come across opportunities that seem to contradict personal values. More specifically, there are opportunities for work in the intelligence field for the military but I find it difficult to commit considering my stance against the US's massive military expenditures and tendency to overstep its bounds. The pay and benefits are pretty great should I get a job in the field; the salary is much higher than almost any other job appropriate for a history major like myself.
Have any of you considered, accepted, or declined career opportunities based on personal values or having the same dilemma now?

moomin
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Re: Careers vs Values

Post by moomin » Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:45 pm

have quit a job for going against something I could tolerate
although I understand in retail that you are there to make money we were selling safety equipment and after a knock, one of the helmets was unsafe for use but instead of throwing the lid away the manager told us to discount it and sell it, that was the last straw for me. I offered alternatives of usage for the helmet including how we could upsell by using it as a demonstration, (thus making more money) but all these were thrown out. I knew I could no longer last in the job and sell people something which I knew could potentially kill them. I also found out at a similar time that helmets we were selling could not pass any safety standard in their home Country, knowing this meant I could no longer convince people to part with money to buy something which I could no longer guarantee as safe.

Looking back a lot of the times I end up leaving a place because I can no longer deal with the double standards so I think its about knowing who you are and what you can tolerate.

I think we can only do our best to keep our own morals in place, as no company I have worked for has proved themselves as completely trustworthy.

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RyanC
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Re: Careers vs Values

Post by RyanC » Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:12 pm

Thanks for the reply. I guess one reason I haven't totally discounted the idea is the thought/fantasy that its possible to be an agent of change within something your disagree with. Possibly supply a healthy form of coercion with the established practices (at least until I get fired).

skhmmxi
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Re: Careers vs Values

Post by skhmmxi » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:04 pm

RyanC wrote:Thanks for the reply. I guess one reason I haven't totally discounted the idea is the thought/fantasy that its possible to be an agent of change within something your disagree with. Possibly supply a healthy form of coercion with the established practices (at least until I get fired).
This is probably a bad reason to take the job. If you're unable to separate your morals from your duties in a job like that, you're unlikely to get far. Generally in that situation nobody expects you to always believe in what you're doing (and indeed they'll seldom ask if you do), but they do expect you to do what you're paid for. If you want to be an agent of change, you should probably be heading towards working in the political engines that direct the actions of those agencies rather than harbouring ideas of subverting the agencies themselves. Attempting to do the latter is likely at best to hinder your career, at worst it'll land you in jail.
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RyanC
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Re: Careers vs Values

Post by RyanC » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:30 pm

Perhaps my language usage belied my intentions. I certainly would do anything illegal on the job. Especially in a military career. What I meant to say was that perhaps I could work in that environment and represent my values through my work. I don't see that as subverting the armed forces.

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Wez
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Re: Careers vs Values

Post by Wez » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:02 pm

Ryan,

When the team responsible for vetting you for security clearance see this post, your odds will drop significantly anyway ;), I would suggest that you have already made your decision.
"Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end."
—Stephen Hawking

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RyanC
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Re: Careers vs Values

Post by RyanC » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:01 pm

Yeah, I guess.
Like I said, there's nothing nefarious about my intentions.

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Wez
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Re: Careers vs Values

Post by Wez » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:37 pm

Fair enough, I would say that it is unlikely that you would be able to do much about the issues you mention until very late in your career.

Since you asked for experiences, I once applied for a job with GCHQ, not only did they reject me, but they did not include enough postage of the rejection letter which meant I had to go to the post office and actually *pay* to receive my rejection. From that point onwards I decided that the intelligence services can go fuck themselves...
"Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end."
—Stephen Hawking

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marowak
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Re: Careers vs Values

Post by marowak » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:30 pm

life is always about balancing ideals ....

i say do what interests you - you want to be able to enjoy your job and in reality - only you can answer what is right ...
06 06.3 08.8
07 04.4 11.5 17.5 08.6 10.11
08 28.3 21.04 13.6 06.7 06.9
09 11.1 06.2 21.4 10.10 29.10
10 23.3 16.7 12.12
11 12.2 12.5 30.5 27.11
12 13.4 28.11 28.12x2
13 10.1 24.6 11.7 12.7
14 12.2 13.2 14.9 17.12
15 29.1 02.2 13.8 7.11
16 10.12 12.12

Pete
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Re: Careers vs Values

Post by Pete » Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:54 pm

Once I realised I wasn't going to be a footballer or a rock star (or indeed an A&R guy), I went with maximising income and minimising impact on life outside standard working hours, enabling me to live relatively comfortably and enjoy a good amount of spare time (until recently where i fucked myself up the ass by taking on another pile of work).
frank wrote:Think of it like weight-lifting. High notes are heavy weights.

Silvio Lives
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Re: Careers vs Values

Post by Silvio Lives » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:17 am

Can you support the part without supporting the whole?

There is some valuable and necessary work being done in intelligence-- supporting that portion of the military agenda does not necessarily endorse the entirely US military machine.

This may be splitting moral hairs, however; only you can determine that based on the nature of the work you will be doing.

If, however, said 'intelligence' job involves the words 'waterboarding' and 'gitmo,' ignore the above hairsplitting and get the hell out.

CharlotteTheHarlot28
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Re: Careers vs Values

Post by CharlotteTheHarlot28 » Mon May 07, 2012 9:23 am

I work in a hospital and before that I worked in a care home so unfortunately I've see many things that contradict my values however, as long as I'm true to myself I find that I can do my job, enjoy it and leave with my head held high at the end of the day. Whilst you may not agree with what goes on around you, as long as you stick to your own guns you'll be fine. Otherwise I think most of us would be jobless!

moomin
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Re: Careers vs Values

Post by moomin » Mon May 07, 2012 1:14 pm

CharlotteTheHarlot28 wrote:I work in a hospital and before that I worked in a care home so unfortunately I've see many things that contradict my values however, as long as I'm true to myself I find that I can do my job, enjoy it and leave with my head held high at the end of the day. Whilst you may not agree with what goes on around you, as long as you stick to your own guns you'll be fine. Otherwise I think most of us would be jobless!
hats off to you
currently trying to get out of the care sector as it is the worst sector I have ever worked in
this includes retail, logistics and property

what I want now is a career and not another job

CharlotteTheHarlot28
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Re: Careers vs Values

Post by CharlotteTheHarlot28 » Mon May 07, 2012 5:23 pm

moomin wrote:
hats off to you
currently trying to get out of the care sector as it is the worst sector I have ever worked in
this includes retail, logistics and property

what I want now is a career and not another job
I can't believe what kind of people are allowed to look after other human beings; it really is a disgrace.
Good luck to you in finding something that makes you happy.

Sparrow
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Re: Careers vs Values

Post by Sparrow » Thu May 10, 2012 8:33 am

I have, on a much more mundane scale chosen career over interests rather than values; I'm going Maths and French at uni and my passion was always music but I was dissuaded against it due to lack of jobs etc however I'm not doing so well in my degree and I would have probably done pretty damn well at music (without sounding like a dick although I really just did). So I say go with what interests you rather than the money, if that becomes a priority then you can always take the job but you'll be doing a job you love in the meantime.

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