AV or not AV, that is the question....

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AV or not AV?

Poll ended at Thu May 12, 2011 6:59 am

Yes
15
63%
No
9
38%
 
Total votes: 24

JackoWilliams
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AV or not AV, that is the question....

Post by JackoWilliams » Thu May 05, 2011 6:59 am

Sorry about the cheesy title, it had to be done.
What are everyone's views on AV and who will be voting what?
I personally think it's just a way of dumbing down voting for those who don't understand basic politics. "Oh I like the colour blue so I'll put Conservatives as my 'second choice' and I'll vote Labour because David Cameron is shit." (just an example)

greg
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Post by greg » Thu May 05, 2011 8:19 am

It's a no from me.

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Emitime
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Re: AV or not AV, that is the question....

Post by Emitime » Thu May 05, 2011 9:25 am

JackoWilliams wrote:Sorry about the cheesy title, it had to be done.
What are everyone's views on AV and who will be voting what?
I personally think it's just a way of dumbing down voting for those who don't understand basic politics. "Oh I like the colour blue so I'll put Conservatives as my 'second choice' and I'll vote Labour because David Cameron is shit." (just an example)
So those that do understand politics end up having greater influence on a result?

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Pete
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Post by Pete » Thu May 05, 2011 10:28 am

greg wrote:It's a no from me.

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Tomasz
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Post by Tomasz » Thu May 05, 2011 10:37 am

It's a yes from me.
Pete wrote:Sometimes, I wish I was a dog on a swing.

DaveHughes
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Post by DaveHughes » Thu May 05, 2011 11:41 am

It's a yes from me, but only just. THought I was dead set on it, then a heated debate with my dad last night made me unsure, slept on it, and voted yes anyway.

once a wasp
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Post by once a wasp » Thu May 05, 2011 11:44 am

Im going to vote yes, not because I particularly want AV (I think it will make sod all difference) but because I want further change that will only come by getting AV first. If its No then that will be justification for not changing anything for years.
Also does anyone think that is referendum has been odd. Its a once in a life time vote and its been completely over shadowed by the Royal Wedding and Osama's death, or maybe people just dont really care....
24/08/07, 21/05/08, 22/08/08, 31/10/08, 30/08/09, 18/10/09, 19/12/09, 16/07/10, 10/12/10, 12/12/10, 21/04/11, 13/5/11, 28/11/11, 13/04/12

Jethro
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Post by Jethro » Thu May 05, 2011 3:33 pm

A no from me too. I might regret it, but ah well. Both the "Yes" and "No" campaigns are shit, its hard to find a serious opinion on it.

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longlivethefrank
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Post by longlivethefrank » Thu May 05, 2011 4:05 pm

Studied it very carefully in Politics last year and again now that its come up, and I'm convinced it should be a Yes. MPs represent everyone in their constituency, not just those that vote for them, so 2nd preferences is a good step I feel.

Looks like the polls are saying no though. Guarantee that the conservatives will use this to say that UK are happy with FPTP and no further debate will take place, when I feel like many of the 'No' voters are doing so because they'd rather have STV. Sigh.

They should have done what they did in New Zealand (http://www.elections.org.nz/voting/mmp/history-mmp.html) where people got to decide the system after voting against FPTP.

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Tomasz
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Post by Tomasz » Thu May 05, 2011 4:10 pm

Jethro wrote:A no from me too. I might regret it, but ah well. Both the "Yes" and "No" campaigns are shit, its hard to find a serious opinion on it.
The no campaign has been very well funded and the yes campaign has been run abysmally. You'd have thought they'd have learned something from the Obama campaign...
Pete wrote:Sometimes, I wish I was a dog on a swing.

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nellied
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Post by nellied » Thu May 05, 2011 4:10 pm

No from me.

For many reasons, some trivial. I believe the system needs change. But this definitely isn't it in my opinion.
Past: '09: 29/8 '10: 17/3 26/8 27/8 3/12 11/12 31/12 '11: 17/2 5/3 21/4 (#1k) 9/5 13/5 15/5 7/7 3/8 6/8 26a/8 26b/8 13/9 14/9 15/9 17/9 18/9 24/11 26/11 27/11 '12 13/4 7/7 13/11 31/1 '13: 1/1
Upcoming ?

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Tomasz
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Post by Tomasz » Thu May 05, 2011 4:18 pm

What's your problem with it then?
Pete wrote:Sometimes, I wish I was a dog on a swing.

JackoWilliams
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Post by JackoWilliams » Thu May 05, 2011 4:22 pm

once a wasp wrote:Im going to vote yes, not because I particularly want AV (I think it will make sod all difference) but because I want further change that will only come by getting AV first. If its No then that will be justification for not changing anything for years.
Also does anyone think that is referendum has been odd. Its a once in a life time vote and its been completely over shadowed by the Royal Wedding and Osama's death, or maybe people just dont really care....
I just think people don't know enough about politics in this country. I understand the basics and know what I'm voting for. A lot of people voted Tory because of Labour's wrong doings, which is fair enough but did people really know what they were voting for?. I think not.

Jethro
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Post by Jethro » Thu May 05, 2011 4:44 pm

Tomasz wrote:
Jethro wrote:A no from me too. I might regret it, but ah well. Both the "Yes" and "No" campaigns are shit, its hard to find a serious opinion on it.
The no campaign has been very well funded and the yes campaign has been run abysmally. You'd have thought they'd have learned something from the Obama campaign...
I can't comment on the funding but the only information I've received from either side is a leaflet essentially saying "It's just fairer" from the Yes side to which my reply is simply "No, it isn't" and a leaflet from the No campaign covered in photos of Nick Clegg... I'd like information on the merits and shortcomings of each system rather than just "NICK CLEGG. LOOK AT HIM. WHAT A CUNT." but thankfully I guess thats why we have internet.

I just disagree on principle with the idea more people can feel like they can vote for smaller parties safe in the knowledge they'll probably get a second choice vote anyway, and even more fundamentally than that I disagree with a "majority" under AV. Any majority based on second or third choice votes shouldn't be referred to in the same way as a majority of 1st choice votes. Its a false majority, and I'd rather have the current system where its at least clear(ish) who favours whom than have 2nd 3rd 4th etc. votes tallied and MPs claim a majority. Buying into AV because MPs can currently get elected with 30 odd percent of the vote feels like a bit like buying into apathy too. If the other 70% of the population are really all opposed, go kick up a fuss!

[/probably ill-informed rant]

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newmy
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Post by newmy » Thu May 05, 2011 5:11 pm

I just looked at the wikipedia entry for STV. If people find AV hard to understand god knows how they'll cope with that.

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