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Pete
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Post by Pete » Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:11 pm

George wrote:
Pete wrote:
Bigby wrote: I guess either course of action is risky, he has to choose between pissing off his financial support of pissing off the general electorate. My guess would be that as a new leader of a party he'll be much more worried about public support, and he'll hope that in the 3 years or so until the next election he can get the unions back on side.
Why not back the unions and hope the electorate forget in 3 years? If there's one thing the Unions are good at, it's remembering bygone times, unlike our general public who are fickle as fuck.

PS - bring it, George ;)
I don't really see a problem in a cap, especially seeing as i dont really believe, as you seem to, that Britain is awash with multi-millionaire benefit claimants, that woman with the fake tits notwithstanding. A £26,000 cap is hardly going to affect many - but it fits in nicely with the mails 'discovery' of said fake tits woman and other benefit entrepreneurs in convincing middle england of its effectiveness. Bearing in mind you get £20 a week for a kid and £13 for each one after that, to reach the cap you'd need something like 30 kids.

The same goes for the upper limit benefit cuts which are, in theory, fine in my book - rich people dont need benefits. Although there is an interesting aside that an attack on universalism and the return to the ignominy of means testing is an affront to the entire welfare system - the point of which, in many cases, is to placate the middle classes by giving them expendable income and something back from the state. The fear, clearly now long since forgotten today, was that removing universal benefits would lead to the middle classes refusing to pay taxes with the sole purpose of propping up the poor. It seems that this implicit facet is on a collision course with the cuts, something i'm not sure i'm necessarily for or against, although it will be interesting to see the middle class bribe is a historical relic, as im sure Osbourne will be hoping, or not.

I'd say though that these cuts surely are just appetisers and we''ll have to wait till the spending review until we see anything of any real substance.
My issue lies with things like this, George, pretty common place in London and grossly fucking unfair:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to- ... 29000.html

devilsadvocat
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Post by devilsadvocat » Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:09 pm

Clur wrote: The solution ends up with far more cooperation between universities and business to produce an education that actually has a career tied to it and actually gives graduates the skills that they need. Business sponsored degrees make so much more sense - much more than saddling students with the loans. Why this isn't being pushed more as an idea is beyond me.
Despite their obviously large teaching capacities, universities in theory exist primarily as research institutes. As such the introduction of entirely business sponsored teaching would make independent research impossible. Whilst this may not be a huge issue in some areas, medical research and business sponsored "independent" drugs trials are already getting ridiculous. I've nothing against increased tuition fees in principle provided the loans system remains in place and adequate support is on offer for those from low income backgrounds. If this turns out not to be the case then yes, the now 16 year olds are screwed, but I know a few people from low income backgrounds currently in the system and they fair very well.

Pete
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Post by Pete » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:17 pm

Phil Woolas: Hahahahahahahahahaha

Hatter
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Post by Hatter » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:47 pm

Great, I'm one of the many now 16 year olds that have a 50% chance of being royally fucked over.
Like A-levels weren't stressful enough...

Pete
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Post by Pete » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:08 pm

Hatter wrote:Great, I'm one of the many now 16 year olds that have a 50% chance of being royally fucked over.
Like A-levels weren't stressful enough...
Am I missing something? Have the govt brought in some kind of paedophile lottery?

NB - A-Levels shouldn't be too stressful, relax, they were two of the best years of my life and you should enjoy your last couple of years living at home and with all your schoolmates around you. I know that's plenty patronising but they really can be two ace years.

Hatter
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Post by Hatter » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:25 pm

Am I missing something? Have the govt brought in some kind of paedophile lottery?

NB - A-Levels shouldn't be too stressful, relax, they were two of the best years of my life and you should enjoy your last couple of years living at home and with all your schoolmates around you. I know that's plenty patronising but they really can be two ace years.
It's just the whole money thing, I don't mind if the whole loan system and repaying it back over an extended period of time stays the same.
I'm more worried about my parents, to be honest. They, my mum especially, really wants me to go to university and get a good job etc. and I know she would help out anyway she could if I needed it. Only, I dont want her to help me out as half the reason I'm going is to try and get a job that pays decently and offers me security so I could help her out. I know she would go behind my back and do something to get me the money if I really needed it.

I thought A-Levels would be the best two years of my school life but the amount of work I get and am expected to do, plus my part time job means I dont really go out anymore. That and I try to help my parents out as much as possible with things becuase I know how stressed they are with both their jobs and doing fuckloads of overtime becuase my dad's job is going to be gone soon, and the likelyhood of him finding another job that pays similar is slim.

Pete
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Post by Pete » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:45 pm

Fucking hell dude, you have my sympathy, too much worry for such a young head!

But i know what you mean, I took a year out and worked after 6th form to fund uni, i also worked part time throughout a-levels (although this was a) to fund socialising and b) cool because I was a muthafucking butcher).

Try not to worry too much about your folks, easier said than done I know, but trust me, there's plenty of that to do in old age as they become beyond employment age and genuine burdens.

If all else fails, stay in, speak to no one and smoke bongs for a few weeks, it'll make all your worries go away.

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Lexapalooza
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Post by Lexapalooza » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:49 pm

I agree with Pete. Let your parents worry about that stuff, and concentrate on doing the best you can and making them proud. I am sure they would be heart broken to think you are making their worries your own.

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longlivethefrank
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Post by longlivethefrank » Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:48 pm

Hatter wrote:
Am I missing something? Have the govt brought in some kind of paedophile lottery?

NB - A-Levels shouldn't be too stressful, relax, they were two of the best years of my life and you should enjoy your last couple of years living at home and with all your schoolmates around you. I know that's plenty patronising but they really can be two ace years.
It's just the whole money thing, I don't mind if the whole loan system and repaying it back over an extended period of time stays the same.
I'm more worried about my parents, to be honest. They, my mum especially, really wants me to go to university and get a good job etc. and I know she would help out anyway she could if I needed it. Only, I dont want her to help me out as half the reason I'm going is to try and get a job that pays decently and offers me security so I could help her out. I know she would go behind my back and do something to get me the money if I really needed it.

I thought A-Levels would be the best two years of my school life but the amount of work I get and am expected to do, plus my part time job means I dont really go out anymore. That and I try to help my parents out as much as possible with things becuase I know how stressed they are with both their jobs and doing fuckloads of overtime becuase my dad's job is going to be gone soon, and the likelyhood of him finding another job that pays similar is slim.
I'm in the same position with being in not a particularly well-off family, wanting to be able to sort my mum out in the future(single parent - she deserves it) but am really enjoying my 2 years. But then I've just scraped in on the old fee system by a year so, while a gap year is not going to happen, I'm pretty much alright. Do feel for the kids in the year below.

Are you privately or publicly at sixth form, out of interest? There's a lot of work for me, but I feel fairly on top of it without having sacrificed the pretty fun social life I have at the moment. Sorry, this might sound like I'm taunting you, I'm just interested. I felt a bit like you when I was at your stage through sixth form, but it got better for me, especially now in the 2nd year. Honestly.

Tension Head
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Post by Tension Head » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:39 pm

I'm doing my AS levels now, so the change will come in before I go to uni. It's a pretty shit feeling but oh well. I'm not completely sure what I want to do in university anyway, plus degrees don't seem to help much anymore, depending on the subject of course. I suppose that's one bright side to this whole thing, in a few years degrees will have more worth because less people will have them. Not that I'm for it or anything, jus' sayin'.

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newmy
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Post by newmy » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:52 pm

Tension Head wrote:I'm doing my AS levels now, so the change will come in before I go to uni. It's a pretty shit feeling but oh well. I'm not completely sure what I want to do in university anyway, plus degrees don't seem to help much anymore, depending on the subject of course. I suppose that's one bright side to this whole thing, in a few years degrees will have more worth because less people will have them. Not that I'm for it or anything, jus' sayin'.
You do make a good point in saying that this might help in making degrees valuable again. I think it's a huge problem as every year there are hundreds of thousands of graduates, many with completely pointless and worthless degrees from pointless and worthless universities, who feel that as the bearer of a Ba/Bsc/etc... they are somehow owed a decent job instantly. It's all just part of the academic inflation we've seen over the last X years - everyone now gets 3 As at a-level, so they introduce the A* grade instead of making the exams harder and everyone now goes to university and gets a 2.1, so more and more people are doing Masters Degrees.

I do agree though that pricing people out of University is completely the wrong way to go about solving the problem.

devilsadvocat
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Post by devilsadvocat » Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:19 pm

From the bbc website:
What are the government's plans?

The government has outlined proposals to allow universities to charge up to £9,000 per year, raising the cap from its current level of £3,290. Universities wanting to charge more than £6,000 would have to undertake measures, such as offering bursaries, summer schools and outreach programmes, to encourage students from poorer backgrounds to apply.

The government would continue to loan students the money for fees. The threshold at which graduates have to start paying their loans back would be raised from £15,000 to £21,000.

Graduates would pay back 9% of their income each month above that threshold.

The subsidised interest rate at which the repayments are made - currently 1.5% - will be raised. Under a "progressive tapering" system, the interest rate will rise from 0 for incomes of £21,000, to 3% plus inflation (RPI) for incomes above £41,000.

If the debt were not cleared 30 years after graduation, it would be wiped out.


What will happen to grants and loans?

Maintenance grants will rise from £2,906 to £3,250 for students from households earning less than £25,000.

But partial grants will only be available to students from households with incomes of £42,000, instead of the current cut-off point of £50,020.

The government has chosen to maintain its current system of means-tested loans, which are biggest for students from middle-income households, who get less help from grants but are offered bigger loans than those from wealthier backgrounds.

Lord Browne had recommended a simpler, flat-rate loan.

While loan amounts have been increased, the threshold for those receiving the most generous ones has been lowered from £50,000 to about £42,000.

Tension Head
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Post by Tension Head » Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:56 pm

newmy wrote:
Tension Head wrote:I'm doing my AS levels now, so the change will come in before I go to uni. It's a pretty shit feeling but oh well. I'm not completely sure what I want to do in university anyway, plus degrees don't seem to help much anymore, depending on the subject of course. I suppose that's one bright side to this whole thing, in a few years degrees will have more worth because less people will have them. Not that I'm for it or anything, jus' sayin'.
You do make a good point in saying that this might help in making degrees valuable again. I think it's a huge problem as every year there are hundreds of thousands of graduates, many with completely pointless and worthless degrees from pointless and worthless universities, who feel that as the bearer of a Ba/Bsc/etc... they are somehow owed a decent job instantly. It's all just part of the academic inflation we've seen over the last X years - everyone now gets 3 As at a-level, so they introduce the A* grade instead of making the exams harder and everyone now goes to university and gets a 2.1, so more and more people are doing Masters Degrees.

I do agree though that pricing people out of University is completely the wrong way to go about solving the problem.
Yeah, I'll be happy to see this weed out all of the useless degrees (casino management, hotel management?) and give the real academic degrees more value.

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longlivethefrank
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Post by longlivethefrank » Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:49 pm

newmy wrote: everyone now gets 3 As at a-level
Well...

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newmy
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Post by newmy » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:12 am

longlivethefrank wrote:
newmy wrote: everyone now gets 3 As at a-level
Well...
I generalise of course.

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